report from the Higher Education Careers Service Unit (HESCU) found that average salaries for engineering graduates tend to be above those for other subjects because of the larger proportion of graduates working in full-time engineering roles. What are the happiest careers? Simply it says that the setup cost in core industry is higher. in Germany/Austria you even get a distinct title! Father. You get paid what you deserve and the universities in UK in Civil Engineering are extremely poor. It has also been my experience over the past forty years that there is a constant refrain about the so called shortage of engineers in the UK emanating from the IEE/IET. Why do you allow your union to promote these folks who are hurting you so badly? Is engineering a stable career? I cannot believe how atrocious the salaries are for Engineering Professionals in the UK. I love engineering that is why I stay in my current role. I briefly worked for a small firm of 20 people and was paid minimum wage with unpaid overtime. On a more serious note and based purely on personal experience; I honestly think that engineering graduates are paid too much. Whether you think a big house in Texas is a worthwhile goal is another matter (Texas, for instance, gets pretty boring after a while, it’s too hot to go outside for 10 months of the year and the relative humidity is 90% so not a great option for many). They come 3 months to clear the shht and then they get fired. You also get orders of magnitude more pressure put on you when you are a manager. Small enough that there is no wall where to put a sofa or cabinet because there is either a door, a window, another door, yet another door or an open fire hole in the way. Certification is minimal — it only takes 120 to 150 hours of training to become an EMT (paramedics require significantly more). The problem isn't that adjunct teachers get paid so little, it is that they work so few hours. Last week Glassdoor published its most recent software engineering salary report. Sadly, I do know that many engineers do get taken advantage of because they basically don’t know any different and when it’s easy to replace you in your job, that’s when you find that your pay is low. I think the demand is there the problem is that engineers are not valued. Companies, like big banks, who need tax money to survive should go bankrupt. Engineers and solicitors may earn the same on average, but you don’t hear regular complaints that there’s a shortage of lawyers. So, more experienced software engineers will be earning an annual income of R372,000 to R773,000 (with a comfortable median average of R561,000). By the time you reach 55 you would have so much money you’d be wondering how to spend it. (3) won’t negotiate with the customer So do lawyers earn more than engineers? People get out of engineering. £30K is not high pay. The ImechE had done nothing to protect the profession and elevate its status. The project managers just chase this. Quality manager. Engineers sometimes bend the truth to avoid work. UK CEng is not a rigorous examination (in a general sense) of engineering-practise related competencies (such as those a lawyer or doctor might have to pass). Upper middle-class women do not marry lower-middle class engineers. All comments are moderated. Students should learn how to learn and gain knowledge. Why do physicists get paid so little? The pay in the UK is SHOCKING for engineers taking into consideration the high cost of living; hand to mouth. At this time you are probably almost 10 years into your career. Compared with the big 4 salaries after ACA qualification, starting magic circle law training contracts, investment bank starting salaries, engineering salaries are a complete joke. The best project managers are those that have come up through the ranks and have an interest in and can actually do the job that they are managing. I love the UK, but can’t see myself moving there due to the HUGE paycut. What I do not understand is why someone with a PhD in a field that hold the potential for the most magnificent advances in human history, are being paid less than many people with simple jobs and a Bachelors degree...The median salary is … Large companies in the City may typically offer a small number of graduates much more than £26,000, but the average graduate starting salary according to HESCU is just £18,615-£22,785 – significantly less than the average received by those who study engineering. Sad reality really. Why don’t Engineers’ salaries reflect this level of responsibility? £80k-100k but this is for those dealing with commercial and high level management aspects of projects. That really lessens the intense university degrees needed to be a real professional engineer. I am in finance but I think engineering career is awesome. Interestingly, my Johannesburg employer (i.e. Should we leave fossil fuels in the ground to limit climate change? Poor pay is the reason why young engineers are finding different careers In the UK at the moment, companies recruiting into engineering roles are asking for graduates…. even so the gap between recent graduates and time served professionals has become very narrow. The progression route usually starts at graduate around £18k – £23k, then to assistant engineer at around £25k-£28k. I have been in the service industry for many years, and I am about to go to school for criminal justice. Two recent graduates taken on are getting about 20k. This is complete rubbish! I graduated in 2008 with a 1st Class MEng (Mechanical). The one good thing about civil engineering is that it is one of the more difficult fields to outsource work to other countries. He was an Oxbridge type, his class mates all earning far more than he, so he said. Its not just about the starting salary its about the progression and opportunities, I started on £25k with an engineering firm, I’m now well above that after 5 years having moved companies. Nice to see the old bubble of lies pricked a little, but I expect the unfounded bleating to continue. And don’t bother looking to the Imech E for help in increasing engineers salaries in the UK (specially now with Brexit) because the organisation is run by the very same people that profit from low engineers wages . My apologies, I see MPs have given themselves a 10% payrise therefore their new salary will be £74k so the assertion that Engineers are paid a similar or greater amount is even less true than I had thought. As for status – you should get status because you are an outstanding person, not because of the job title. UK salaries are Lower than the EU? (I hv a engineering degree) . I actually asked to see his degree and sure enough he does really have one. Oil & gas engineers, railway signalling engineers, mining engineers, marine salvage engineers, can often earn £90-150,000 a year, albeit sometimes working in rough locations, and often in tax-free countries. The reason is that there is very little public demand for it, and thus there is limited funding allocated toward academic research. In The States, in 1967 The Justice Department attacked the architects for price fixing. What I do not understand is why someone with a PhD in a field that hold the potential for the most magnificent advances in human history, are being paid less than many people with simple jobs and a Bachelors … My salary as an experienced Professional Chartered Engineer, working in the private sector for over 30 years, has actually lost value at the rate of about 1.4% per annum relative to the cost of living for the past 15 years, whilst graduate starting salaries have flat lined or barely kept up with the RPI. I personally took this route after getting tired of seeing how counting beads with an abacus pays twice as much as doing cutting edge research in engineering. Personally I find the effort to financial reward ratio in an engineering career is poor compared to certain other fields. My experience is that in technical consulting (for which a good engineering masters degree is a good start) starting salaries are mid twenties to 30k, and you can probably get to 2 or 3 times that over 10-15 years. If your company is up-to-date you probably have a quality manual and training material where all the terms you need are explained. On the whole, we recognize the engineering profession as one that guarantees financial security. The job as a contractor doesn’t require you to be Chartered Engineer and the pay is higher than as a Permanent Engineer but as a downside, you have to move all over the country and commute huge lengths of time. Most students prefer a different type of engineering, although the sallary here is almost the same for all of them. When you see a serious engineering role come up, one where experience is essential, it’s usually a temporary or short-term contract. On jobs websites you will see salaries of £18-23k and they are for smaller firms that can’t afford to pay their staff more with little job progression. At oe interview, when it came to negotiating wages, the MD lughed when I said how much I previously earned and offerred £17.5K. Don’t get me wrong I completely understand the worth they bring but ultimately they generally go home at 5pm whereas we provide 24/7 support to keep things on-air and working. We are moving to a 2 class society. All were designated “engineers” of sorts and all worked in the design and manufacturing offices of GEC. Now say engineers aren’t underpayed. The way to progress salary in engineering is to take on management responsibilities. According to his LinkedIn page, Doll worked at Apple during the period 2003 to 2009. I work as a engineer in small consultancy in central london zone 1 and with 2 years graduate experience under my belt. I’m retired, ex-UK with B.Sc., C.Eng and have lived in South Africa since 1971. I am so glad I jumped into projects as it removed from being behind a computer screen all day and has also allowed to live a nice lifestyle in the North of England. And secondly because the figures used to claim salaries are high are usually broken down by the subject studied at university not the actual job being done. A funny story about Steve Jobs was tweeted out by Evan Doll, a cofounder of the news-reading app Flipboard, while he was working at Apple. Why is this happening? Facts are facts an MP earns £66k, compare this with the figures in this article of £38k for an engineer and you can clearly see a huge disparity. Another month’ saving for a bicycle. A plumber is called an engineer. Firstly because they can pay them peanuts and second because we’ve got graduate managers hiring graduate engineers. We should tear down the belief that doctors, and solicitors deserve some special status. Up to a certain size, jobs are often, as you say, best run by a Chief Engineer, and many of my own best projects have been ones I’ve run, Engineered and PM’d. Thank you. So anyone wants to tell me that an en experienced engineer with about 11 to 12 years experience being offered £40,000 per annum is well paid? Hi all from my personal experience the salaries engineers are paid is no where near £30k. I totally agree with you. Comparison between average NZ Engineer and Lawyer salaries at different career. Compare the same level of experienced professionals as Lawyers and Doctors with the same level of experience. We're not being cocky, engineers are really better than everyone else. Demand from politicians that the health service is restructured with nurses providing frontline medical services, not people with a doctorate, and divorce, probate and conveyancing is simplified so lawyers can’t coin it in from what should be a smooth simple process for most ordinary people. Trainee Software Engineers get more than me, and fully qualified ones even more so because they are ‘the future’ apparently. I greatly appreciate your advice and will take on board whatever you say. No other educational qualifications are deemed appropriate for registration. So my solution to the problems of being an engineer are different to yours. During this 3 years I moved up to 40k pa as Senior PE. Publikované: 2. And when you compare to other similarly respected disciplines such as Law, Economics & Finance and Medicine, engineering salaries are way behind. I agree with the last comment that the professional body who represent Civil Engineering do nothing to promote the salaries of Chartered Engineers because it is not in their interest. In hindsight it would have made much more sense for me to go down the electrician route than the academic one. However, as I see it the issue is not that the engineer is paid too little – the problem is that the GP is paid too much for the actual job he is doing, which is only moderately skilled, and the current tax/benefits system flattens the income gradient in the £15,000 – £60,000 a year far too much. But, the supply demand curve theory in mytha-nomics might not be correct. I hope that one day some of you will become doctors and lawyers or will figure out my taxes. If your wife taught as many units as I do, paid at the rate you describe, she would be making $30,000 a year, with zero benefits. That the ‘market’ does not reflect ‘value’ is also clear; it reflects a version of supply and demand. Why do civil engineers get paid so little for the skills they posses? The reason for this is likely the availability of engineers from places like China and India who were happy to come work for lower salaries. When speaking about jobs and professions, one of the primary things we think of is how profitable a particular career is. Then there’s lawyers. In general the skills and value of engineers are better recognised and rewarded in capital intensive industries such as utilities or oil and gas rather than lower margin manufacturing where labour costs are critical. I love engineering, I was good at it and I believed in it – and I’m sad to have sold out, but it was a smart choice. However, if you were a GP you’d likely meet and marry someone also on a high income – very likely another GP. We are meant to be cheap and deliver things quickly. Salaries estimates are based on 79 salaries submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by Engineer employees in Tokyo, Japan. Compare this to other professions and you’ll realise that they’re in a different universe. My beliefs about engineering salary levels are UK-only (i.e. Engineering graduates dominate the top ten list of highest-paid degree holders. Project on Women Engineers’ Retention (POWER) was designed to understand factors related to Generally we get to know more and more about less and less. Perhaps you should do some research before posting such comments? I suspect there aren’t many project managers that actually create proejct plans, analyse how long each task takes, number of people cost etc. So well done The Engineer for throwing some facts into the story. I initially started as a project engineer on a major UK nuclear site on 32kpa and did this for 3 years. Even a moderately successful, adequately qualified Engineer with a little determination can earn more than a current MP’s salary. This is particularly the case when a college student has to select a study course to enroll in. There are other reasons EMS pay is so low. Why don’t you look at glassdoor or indeed and compare salaries for engineers in the UK to other countries? is a highly coveted qualification and accords the holder with the same status and salary range as those attributable to physicians, chartered accountants, etc. Chemical engineering graduates earning on average more than anyone except dentists, with a mean starting salary of £29,582. In other words a faster rise than others pay. is there an exam like there is in Germany, USA, Canada? exactly 35K is diabolical, that was good pay 25 years ago for a office worker, not a senior engineer! In my view engineering does not pay well for the complexity and range of skills gained during the degree (for example ive recently seen a job advertised for a ‘graduate engineer’ with 2+ years of post grad experience (this baffles me…) for 25k, this is frankly a bit insulting that they consider this an acceptable wage). Posted by 5 years ago. The reason is that there is very little public demand for it, and thus there is limited funding allocated toward academic research.. Great engineers in england have become expendable. The Civil Engineering industry is not profitable anymore and the companies are still keeping themselves afloat with extreme hours of unpaid work. In reply to the question from Kamal, as a retired chartered chemical engineer with 30 plus years of experience, engineering can be a worthwhile, interesting, financially very rewarding career but it is not as easy to achieve as say for a medical career. Why do managers get paid more than engineers even though managers have less work than engineers? And any other needs not covered by NHS. Only in the UK does the Engineer enjoy such extra low status. There are a number of other people in the same wage bracket – supervisors, team leaders, sales managers, used car salesmen, estate agents – and therefore there is a lot of competition for housing in this bracket which means you don’t get much for your money. And mean figures like those in the Times guide can be skewed by a small number of very high earners. Perhaps it should be, and I don’t know why it isn’t. I employ Engineers in Nuclear on upwards of £600 per day so yes it can be very rewarding. If you took out the people that hadn’t progressed to be managers then I’m afraid the salary is very poor and typically only a few thousand more than a graduate gets. If the masses are confused about it, I’m not sure that makes as much difference as is often said. The same Globalization forces are sucking out the middle class like a giant vampire squid. you don’t need a degree to be classed as an engineer. My wages are amongst the lowest in the company yet I’m one of only two who is actually an engineer. Then where are all these high paid jobs, apparently there is a shortage of engineers so why are so many out of work if there is such a demand. Wow! The salary can be really good i.e. You can hire a smart Mexican Engineer for $5/hr. It seems design has become a commodity. A good PM will motivate, performance manage and manage stakeholder expectations whilst also managing a projects finances. What none of this answers, of course, is the question of whether the salaries received by engineers reflect their level of training, the demand for their expertise and the social value of their work. They also have done nothing to protect the title of Engineer and so anyone and everyone can be called an engineer. We of course accept his choice and would like to help him with his career choice. The second problem with being an engineer is it rarely lends itself to setting up your own business. I have 5 years experience and on 50% more than that. Unfortunately civil is at the bottom of the pile. I don’t think the people who need to know confuse ‘technicians’ with ‘professional engineers’ , though I personally think that it is a good thing that, in general, engineering is something anyone can pursue without necessarily having a piece of paper (let’s face it, CEng is not exactly a rigorous examination). Visit the UK’s dedicated jobsite for engineering professionals. Why are engineers paid so little? Most German engineers I know live in apartments, not houses. He was right! I'm full-time at a community college. This time, it's money's fault. https://thecivildiscourse.com/2016/10/18/competitive-industry-uncompetitive-salaries/. Home / Uncategorized / why are mechanical engineers paid so little; why are mechanical engineers paid so little. On the another way it’s unfair from my point of view calling to gas fitters and plumbers as engineers to classified them to the same level as for example chartered engineer (4 or 5 years engineering university) that’s is big difference for me with respect to any professionals. That's why it's a good idea to keep engineers away from customers, romantic interests, and other people who can't handle the truth. Good article, thought provoking. The engineering degree, including civil, is still a very valuable educational attainment. Exactly as you wrote, “any Project Manager YOU HAVE MET”. Economic reality. 100% of 0 is still 0, so to speak. Otherwise you are looking at roughly 1.5 times your salary which is the brake even point to your employer, if an engineer was paid £100k a year say around £8.75k a month could you make your employer £150k a year as an individual? New Grad salary is about 50k $ here. One thing worth bearing in mind is that many people get stuck in their chosen country when they discover house prices in the UK have risen much faster than in their chosen work country. I did manage people for a while and it really is a pain in the backside. Other countries have made it near on impossible to call yourself an engineer, surely the institute of or council of engineers should take on this fight? This career should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as minimum wage. Owning your own business is the way a lot of people with no formal qualifications at all will beat you hollow when it comes to income. Take a mechanical Project Manager: numerous skills required such as a broad engineering skill, administration … I wonder because that seems quite low by my experience. That likely halves your family income right there, and has knock-on effects. It is simply wrong that a CE or any Engineer, is paid at the levels he is. How do we change that? 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